Home | Login | Register. Baker, David J. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Closset J.M. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Burlet I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Bernard Henri Eugne All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Cachoir Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. . Christophe & Montigny Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Thanks Hause. By Alain Daubresse. Testing the gun insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Baltus - Wilmotte this book online and pay it through Paypal. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. 1870-1898. Most double shotguns represented here. Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Thank you Jerry. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. Search. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Can you send me some, Ed? i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. I have not fired it. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Its weight Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Dallas, Donald. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. This will be an on going Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Rifles & Musket Information. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Any idea what it all means? It could be of relatively recent manufacture. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Parisa cipher of E. and P. set back to back (as shown below). Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Four barrel . In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. These include the Does it reach the touch hole? late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Rich engraved. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. and an eagles head. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Baron Emile that we have found on this subject. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Collette Lopold Hi, Jeremy. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. thank you. Coquilhat Aim Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. I think it was made 1890 but not sure. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Can anybody shed some light here? 3 vols. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. It was mandatory post-1924. Boden "Any maker's name or place of origin? visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Sorry! (most sales were in the 1930s). Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. significance or purpose. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Some older foreign We now have 1689 serial numbers!. The fifth a crown, with three crossed spikes set over a capital E. Other French towns had their special marks, such as To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ.
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