There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Different wiring projects call for different standards. For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. All members here are welcome to drop in and visit. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Its a bargain at that price. Please see our article on Fastrack here for more information. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. Take the hint. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Its expensive, but the same factors that drove KW prices down are also driving ZW prices down. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. is always one of the first questions asked when someone starts to build a model railroad. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. [:)]. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Our community is FREE to join. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. I've had light 'arguments' with fellow hobbyists claiming most of their fellows are predominantly technically - oriented vs. what I would consider is a more liberal artsy approach - any way it's a great balance. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. The car on the left is scale, and the one on the right is the classic, underscale size. All of the transformers that have more than 90 Watts are in great demand today as more collectors are operating retro-layouts. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Safety first. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. If the transformer fails, you most likely have a short or overload somewhere in the control circuit. A. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. Just like with your track bus and feeders, running an accessory bus of slightly heavier wire to connect to each light or accessory with a smaller feeder is a good plan. You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. I have a post war ZW and a KW and a Z, all three are good transformers, just meant for differant needs. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Actually it was a train show with varied trains of all different eras being run I have mostly MTH trains though and they wouldn't run because the transformer that was running wasn't powerful enough to cycle through my MTH trainsounds. If the second digit is 9, it could be either, so be careful when considering one of them. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. White and black are common selections. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). Classic Toy Trains magazine offers information about toy trains operating and collecting, toy train product news and reviews, toy train layout tips, toy train layout designs and track plans, and more. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Like command control, these trains still require a constant voltage to the rails. These can all have uses for your layout. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on That means there are lots of them. I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. Actually the choice of transformer is secondary to the choice of control systems since you can operate O gauge trains with most any good modern transformer. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. Thanks! If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. If you're looking to only have one loop with multiple sidings then you'll only need 1 source of power for the whole layout. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Use this index to see additional details about the individual transformers issued by Lionel during the post-war period. My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? I have had the same problem. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. Past,presentand future. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! To participate you must either login or register for an account. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around the entire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. A rule of thumb from the elders, (I had to go to the mountain top for this one), Add 2 more watts for Spankybird's fun-filled layout! We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. :-). Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. What do I need to do that with? Mark. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. My current layout uses about 28 sections of track (Lionel o-27). You could have a poor connection that caused the wire to heat up. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. The accessory activation track (#12029) is used to activate Lionel trackside accessories. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". The multi-conductor wire is also available. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. . Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. Just not quite as much. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. no it isn't. Can't plug into outlet? Never had a problem. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. We're sorry. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Just not quite as much. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). Which Lionel transformer do I need? you ask? That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. But a 12-gauge solid wire is one strand, while a 12-gauge stranded wire may be made up of more than a dozen much smaller individual strands spun together. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Do not use this device if water is present. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Although not necessarily a mandated standard, white, black and or red are used for track power on most layouts - if for no other reason than these colors are easiest to find. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. Both are lighted. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. View More! There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 sheet of plywood, a 90 watt Lionel 1033 or 1042 is an excellent choice. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? Faq No: 1029 They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. The insulation on the outside of the wire also varies greatly. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. Accessories often interact with the train, such as a crossing gate that lowers as the train passes. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. what size lionel transformer do i need. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). JavaScript is disabled. One rail is positive, the other negative. David, looking at your layout I notice there is a two rail and a three rail ? The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. electronically controlled outputs. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. The 1033 is not the same as the 1044. I really doubt you will need more than that. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! THE BASICS "O", "S", "HO". The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. Over the years I have collected boxed (mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Transformer sizing for new systems Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). OTTS Founder The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! I use to use one KW for 70 feet of main line, sidings and switching yard entry track. Expanding the basic oval from the set is the quickest way to add more interest to your trains. Effort. What size Lionel transformer do I need? LGB throttles 51070, 52120 and 52121 will all work with the 50061 and other LGB transformers. 12V DC to 120V AC 60Hz pure sine inverter. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires.